Keeping Up With the Jones' Schools

Last Friday night, I deposited the kids at my folks' house and drove into the city to meet my husband and some friends at the Landmark Tavern. It was a splendid evening. I caught up with Andrew and Eliza whom I haven't seen in far too long. We all met on the Jacob Javitts playground in Washington Heights when our oldest kids were just toddling around the slides. Some of my favorite people in the world I met at that playground, and I still miss those days.

Sadly, nearly all those friends moved away from the old 'hood in search of better schools for our kids. Andrew and Eliza moved out to Ridgew--. After several months of a fruitless search for an affordable shack in Ridgew--, we ended up in a nearby town with a reputation for good schools and a good commute into Manhattan. The population was more working class and the homes were more modest than Ridgew--, but all assured me that the schools were fine.

At the bar, I talked with Andrew and his new friends. We compared notes about our kids' new interests, how big they had grown, the color of their hair, and what they were doing in school. Andrew's kids were getting much more than mine were. His third grader had nightly writing assignments. The parents were regularly invited into the classroom to work with the kids. My kid can't even get his teacher to check his homework. He has no writing assignments.

I left the bar a little sick. The next day, I set up a meeting with the school principal to discuss curriculum. Steve and I also discussed whether we should sign up Jonah for enrichment classes and whether we should move.

On the one hand, we really like having regular people for neighbors. I like that my kid isn't growing up thinking that all parents are doctors or lawyers. He doesn't have the entitlement and the arrogance of the kids that I grew up with. There are such high expectations for kids in those schools that a number of my high school classmates lost their marbles in college. Every once in a while, I get one of the kids from Andrew's town in my college classes, and they think that they are better than they are. On the other hand, it would nice if my kid learned how to write a proper essay.

I'm going to meet with the principal on Thursday. She's a smart woman, so I'm curious what she'll say.

Comments

[Lisa V]

Laura, I agree, the best method in the world can be implemented badly, and the worst can be made palatable by good teachers.

It's interesting that a Title 1 school who I assume is eligible for all sorts of funding and program enhancements doesn't take advantage of those effectively. Or seemingly doesn't.

But I have seen in my oldest daughter's high school that classes for regular students (not AP) have ridiculously low expectations. It makes me sad that they aren't trying to make children rise to a competent level and instead just let them coast because they assume they can't do any better.

[MH]

Lisa V,

Feedback from a 'rubric'? Please explain as I want to get the lingo before I have to deal with a grade school. Our son's big accomplishment for last week was learning that two cookies are more than one cookie and that four cookies are more than two cookies. My big accomplishment: not saying "Holy Sh*t, you can count" while we were having a snack. Unfortunately, we are having trouble with the concept of 'three' and, especially, the concept of how many cookies are reasonable for a snack.

[Wendy]

Amy, if I wanted to read KTM, I would....

I'm at a conference right now (lunch break--I gave a presentation and have been small talking and I need the down time!) and we've been talking a lot about teaching and learning (obviously :). Good teachers do matter. But they have to go through a learning process, so we would have to build that into any educational program. Furthermore, there is something inherent in good teachers that makes them want to try new things in order to reach more students. I find most good teachers to be somewhat restless yet adaptable people. In other words, what I'm saying is that there will be some failures in teaching, and I think that's intrinisic, somewhat paradoxically, to *good* teaching.

I have other thoughts, but it's time to go back. I can't find a single diet Coke in this place and I'm about to lose my mind.

[Lisa V]

A rubric- this is a total parent, lay person understanding btw, so read at your own risk- is a table, chart, guide, set of standards that you use to evaluate work.

The standards are set for that individual assignment. The classic example I always see used is let's say you are making a pie.
Things that are important about the pie- appearance, taste, texture are laid out in a chart. Then someone evaluates your pie based on the standards set, either it exceeds expectations, meets expectations, or is below expectations in each category. Then there are likely comments about why the evaluator used thought each of these things. Then they add them all up and say your pie meets expectations based on X.

There is usually criteria within say appearnce that you know ahead of time is important- like that it's flakey or golden or whatever.

Often students are given an example of exemplary work before they start their own pie so they know the expectations. Sometimes students are asked to contribute to the rubric - "what do you think would be needed for this essay?"

Our kids have been doing this since kindergarten. It's easy for them to understand as a simple "A" was for you and I. Only they know a lot more going in, and how to achieve it.

My daughter's high school English teacher last year was very excited to introduce rubrics as this cool new method to her class last year. But my daughter and her friends had been doing for 8 years, and they had to sit on their hands because the teacher didn't want them explaining it wrong. At our school, these kids would have been a supplement after her lesson and shown others how to do it.

Oh, and I say holy shit all the time to my kids, frequently in reference to homework.

Laura, sorry, for taking up so much space today. It's my day off and I obviously need to pay you rent.

[MH]

Thanks for clearing that up Lisa. My grade school had a similar deal under a different name. We didn't get letter grades. It was V (very satisfactory), S (satisfactory), U (unsatisfactory) and "Being a year old than most of the other kids might help him if he wants to play football when he gets to high school."

[Amy P]

"Amy, if I wanted to read KTM, I would...."

Wendy,

Don't tell me you didn't like the hot fudge line (which was relevant--Laura mentioned ed consultants)! At least one other mention of KTM was pertinent, because bj was writing about the connection between individual politics and preferred teaching methodology. Then there was the KTM parent I quoted who also was having her child's work go uncorrected--I needed that to back up my assertion that handing back uncorrected work is a fairly wide-spread phenomenon, rather than a freak occurrence. I'm sure I must have included a couple unnecessary KTM cites, but at least 50-60% were pretty directly connected to stuff going on in this thread. If KTM has a weakness, it's maybe its too quick suspicion of whatever schools are up to. However, in fairness to KTM, that suspicion is well-earned, and in part a product of public schools not treating parents as equal partners who need to be respectfully listened to.

[Tex]

I wonder if our school is using the same writing program as the one being proposed in Laura’s school. Last year the fourth graders spent endless class time in various pre-writing exercises. Group discussions, circles & spokes, Venn diagrams, pictures, lists, who knows what else. My daughter’s teacher finally conceded it wasn’t working for her. When I saw the writing program that some homeschooling parents were using so successfully, it became even clearer to me that our school’s approach was yet another in an endless line of mediocre innovations being tested on our children.

[Tex]

Furthermore, there is something inherent in good teachers that makes them want to try new things in order to reach more students.

That’s interesting, and consistent with the love affair that the educational establishment seems to have with “innovation”. Unfortunately, from everything I’ve read, the research in K-12 education is miserably substandard compared to other disciplines. Furthermore, they’re allowed to use our children as guinea pigs in their ongoing quest “to try new things”.

[Tex]

Laura, I’m sure you feel fortunate that you have the means to be able to move to a better school if you decide that’s better for your children. Although, some may wonder why you don’t just give your school a chance with the new writing program. Or with the other ways they say they’re trying to improve education.

Wait, I forgot that waiting for the schools to improve is just for parents who don’t have the money to move.

[Amy P]

"Furthermore, there is something inherent in good teachers that makes them want to try new things in order to reach more students."

True. On the other hand, there's this sort of institutional deathwish thing where whole schools, districts, and states engage in experiments that any reasonable, well-informed person would see were a mistake without the need for experimentation. Take, for example, the 4-period day experiment. I'm sure it sounded like a good idea at the time to some people, but anyone who knew anything about math, music, or foreign languages would know that if you study one of these subjects for 4 months, drop it for 8, and then resume for another 4 months, you are very nearly beginning with a clean slate the second time.

I don't think major educational experiments should be engaged in without prior permission from the subjects or their parents. As somebody said on KTM once (sorry Wendy!), it is unethical to do even harmless medical experiments on human subjects without their informed consent.

[bj]

bummer, laura. I was hoping that the principal would make it all make sense. But I guess not.

[MH]

I'm occasionally bitter also, but I don't insult people on their own blogs (unless they are Ron Paul supporters). It's not that I feel supporting Rep. Paul is somehow less worthy of respect than any other views, its just that it is impossible to disagree with a Ron Paul supporter without leaving them feeling insulted.

[jane doe]

And with that, you have the reasons that my wife and I are likely to homeschool. If we're going to teach the material ANYWAY, we might as well not try to cram it into the evenings.

Exactly. If I had it to do over again, I would homeschool.

I live in a "high performing" district, funding $22,000/per pupil. Parents, tutors, and students are doing the heavy lifting -- and, yes, we're cramming our remediation into the evening hours.

Last night, at 10 pm, I was on the phone teaching sin, cosine, and tangent to the son of a friend. She's on her way over now to learn beginning trig from me; in exchange, she's going to explain lunar eclipses & why we always see the same side of the moon to me.

My district is indifferent and, when pushed, openly hostile to parents who ask why their kids aren't learning these concepts at school.

The answer is simple:

a) some kids are learning (true), so if your kid isn't, that's his problem

b) if the kid doesn't learn, it's up to him to "seek extra help."

If extra help doesn't help and you've got the nerve to point this out prepare for war.

[jane doe]

And with that, you have the reasons that my wife and I are likely to homeschool. If we're going to teach the material ANYWAY, we might as well not try to cram it into the evenings.

Right.

We've had the same experience Tex has had. ($22,000 per pupil spending in our district) Parents, tutors, and, when they're old enough, students are doing the heavy lifting.

And, yes, we're cramming it all into evening & weekend hours.

Last night at 10 (this is a Sunday evening I'm talking about) I was on the telephone explaining sine, cosine, and tangent to a friend's child. She's on her way over here now to learn beginning trig; she'll explain lunar eclipses and why we always see the same side of the moon to me.

Some parents do have the nerve to ask why their kids can't learn these things at school. It's a good way to make enemies, but some of us ask anyway.

The district's answer:

a) some kids are learning these things at school (true), so if your kid isn't, that's his problem

b) if your kid isn't learning what he's supposed to be learning it's up to him to "seek extra help"

Good luck finding a teacher in his office during designated "extra help" hours, but never mind.

Of course, we can always hire a district teacher to tutor.

Fees: $80 to $120/hr

If I had it to do over again, I would homeschool. In a heartbeat.

[jane doe]

sorry --- didn't mean to post twice (thought my original comment was lost)